Ambika P. Adhikari interview by Kantipur 2007

INTERVIEW WITH Dr AMBIKA PRASAD ADHIKARI

Holding prestigious positions in the field of architecture, urban planning and environmental policy, Dr Ambika Prasad Adhikari, 55, has worked in numerous countries as an urban planner, environmental consultant and teacher, and also training a whole new generation of planners, environmentalists, and architects over the past three decades. Currently, he is a Faculty Associate at Arizona State University, Phoenix, USA.  Dr. Adhikari was born in the remote eastern district of Bhojpur and is the first Nepali to gain a Ph. D. from Harvard University in USA. He is also a Planner and Project Manager at the City of Phoenix, Arizona.  A former IUCN country representative for Nepal (he was the first Nepali to be appointed to the post through a global search), Dr. Adhikari was recently in Kathmandu to attend the Third NRN Conference. He took some time out from his packed schedule to talk to ekantipur Editor Akhilesh Tripathi on different issues involving the NRNs. Excerpts:

Q. Dr. Adhikari, could you please tell us briefly about your childhood early education, and career?

Dr. Adhikari: I was born in Yaku, Bhojpur in 1952. I did my early schooling in Dharan, actually starting from the fifth grade, and then obtained my I. Sc. in 1969 from Morang College, Biratnagar standing first in the country. Subsequently, I went to India on Colombo Plan to study architectural engineering at the M.S. University of Baroda, Gujarat, where I passed in first division. In 1975 I returned to Nepal and started to work as an Assistant Lecturer at the Institute of Engineering (IOE), Tribhuvan University. I taught there for a long period of time where I was promoted to a Lecturer and eventually to a Reader. In between I went to an East-West centre scholarship to University of Hawaii from 1978 to 1982. in Hawaii I got my Master’s degree in architecture and also in urban planning.

I came back to IOE, Tribhuvan University and became the Project Architect for the Western Region Campus in Pokhara. That project was supported by the World Bank, ILO, UNDP and a number of other institutions. And it was a very interesting exercise for me to manage the design and construction aspects of a US$ 17 million project—and simultaneously teach architecture, civil engineering and urban planning. Subsequently, I became the Interim Project Coordinator for the project in Pokhara. That was an excellent experience. I traveled around the country, and worked with numerous people. I also published many articles in The Rising Nepal; Kantipur was not even born then. In 1986, I went to MIT as a Hubert H. Humphrey fellow. I was there for a year and then in 1987 I joined Harvard University to do my PhD which I completed in 1991.

Q. You were doing quite well in Nepal. What was the push factor that made you leave the country? What was the turning point?

Dr Adhikari: Akhilesh ji, I, in some ways haven’t actually left the country. I have always been in like a nomad, working on both sides. I have gained and have also lost working on both sides.  If I had settled in the US all the time or if I had worked in Nepal permanently, I probably would have been in a better position in either of the places.

Q. What was the purpose of your recent visit—the NRN conference or Dashain? 

Dr Adhikari: It was both. The NRN conference is designed in such way that most of the Nepalese people can come back to Nepal. Both for NRN and also to do Dashain and Tihar. So it was actually both for me. My first priority was NRN, and  I remained on leave on Dashain visiting family and friends.

Q. How often do you visit the country?

Dr Adhikari: I come here almost every year.

Q. How do you rate the third NRN conference in terms of success?

Dr Adhikari: I think it was absolutely successful. I think it was more successful than I imagined. There was support from all the political parties and the civil society. The prime minister even said in his speech that he was supportive of dual nationality, which is one of the major demands of the NRN. The convention was very well attended with more than 400 NRNs participating actively. Many people had interest in coming to the NRN leadership, demonstrating the attractiveness of the positions. They were also quite a few changes in the leadership, while the president remained the same by popular demand (laughs). Several receptions were given to us by different political parties and civil society, banks and businesses. There was plenty of positive interaction between the NRNs and the residential Nepalese communities. So I would rate the convention as highly successful.

Q. How do you see the overall NRN movement and the government's response so far?

Dr Adhikari: Okay, Akhileshji as you know the NRN movement is new. Nepalis have been NRNs for a long period of time, as we've been Gorkha soldiers, and the people who go to work as labourers, and who go to India.  These are all traditional NRN activities. But the organized NRN movement in the modern sense of the term is just about five years old. And within five years the momentum has drastically strengthned. So the NRN movement has been very successful in a short span of time. There are three of four different categories of NRNs – professionals, students, laborers and entrepreneurs, they are all within the umbrella of NRN. A large number of Nepalis, almost two million people live outside Nepal, constituting the Diaspora.

The government was a little lukewarm in the beginning of the NRN movement. The NRNs had to go to the government offices and the party offices to get things done. The situation ahs changed. This year there was so much interest in the NRN that the political parties, government, and business people took time to come to the NRN meetings. The interest is not only from the NRN side to see government support. It's also from the government, civil society and the political parties to bring the NRN into their fold and to have a positive interaction with them. So the interest now is mutual. I think the cooperation between the government and NRNs has dramatically increased.

Q. What more does the government need to do?

Dr. Adhikari: Well, the biggest demand from our side, which I think would be beneficial to both sides, is dual nationality. Because due to better opportunities, and job requirements many people have taken foreign citizenships in Europe, in the Americas, in Australia and other places. The first, second and even third generation Nepalis living abroad want to come to Nepal during occasions like Dashain, Tihar etc. and they want to be with their families. It doesn’t feel good to be on the lines of a foreigner to get a visa to visits one’s homeland. Also, not to be able to buy property and to live here as Nepalis when they want to come back, discourages many in the Diaspora. Further, a large chunk of the NRNs, tens of thousands of them, in the rich countries are also now in the retirement phase. They do want to come to Nepal, either permanently or at least wish to spend half their time in Nepal. Many other countries have accepted and allowed dual nationality. Dual nationality is our biggest demand but I know that even if the Prime Minister speaks in favour of dual nationality, its implementation may take a long time. We request everyone concerned to expedite that process, with the assurance that it will be beneficial to both sides.

Q. What is the situation like in our neighbouring countries? How do you compare the roles played by the governments of our neigbouring countries for their Diaspora with that of our government?

Dr Adhikari: Nepal government has, of course, been slow, partly because we too have been slow. As I mentioned earlier, although the NRNs have been there for a long period of time, the organized movement is very recent. Compared to that, in Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan the non-resident national’s movement is 20-30 years old. They are much better established and they have been mobilizing their support for dual nationality for a long time. One of the last countries to allow dual nationality was India which. Many other countries had allowed dual nationality earlier on. The strength of their movement, and the realization of their governments were much quicker than ours. In many ways, we are behind, but I think given our late start, we are doing alright.

Q. Dr Adhikari, what would be your pragmatic assessment of the real potential of the NRNs? What are the core areas where they can contribute significantly? 

Dr. Adhikari: Akhilesh ji, that’s a very good question. The NRNs, I can say right now, cannot do the heavy lifting required for the economic development in Nepal; it has to come from within the country. The development engine has to move from within Nepal. Nepal is a country with many opportunities, a lot of resources, and there are lots of educated, smart people here. The NRNs will definitely support in a very positive manner. But from a pragmatic point of view, the NRNs are not that rich right now, compared to, let’s say, the NRIs or the non-resident Chinese. As you know, the non-resident Indians and Chinese have played a critical and vital role in foreign direct investment and also in the overall economic development of those two countries.

The NRNs do not have that kind of clout currently. We are reasonably established but not financially strong. But if you talk about the academic, intellectual and professional aspects, given the size of our country, I think we are doing extremely well. For example,  there’s a Nepali Vice-President in the Asian Development Bank. There is a Nepali Assistant Secretary General in the UN. Nepalis occupy many top positions in several international organizations and companies. Nepalis have become senior executives in large companies in the USA, Canada, Europe and many other parts of the world. There are many Nepali professors in reputed universities across the world. There are many highly-paid Nepali IT professionals. In my opinion, Nepali IT professionals are second only to Indians. That’s a big resource. So given all this, I think NRNs do have a lot of potential. They can contribute in Nepal’s development; they can come here for a short period of time and can make intellectual investment. They can be connected and they can lobby outside. There’re many things they can do to help Nepal.

Q. The intellectual capital that the NRNs have is definitely an important factor. What do you suggest for the best utilization of this intellectual capital?

Dr Adhikari: That’s a good question again. Some of the work is already happening. There are lots of Nepali professors who are already working in Nepal. Some of them have come as Fulbright Professors from the USA. Some have arrived from other countries like the UK, Australia, Canada and Europe. But so far, they have not come under the umbrella of the NRN just because the NRN movement was not that well-organized. Now many of them will be coming within the cover of the NRN. So you will see a much more concerted and consolidated effort from our side. 

Secondly, now many Nepalis are well-established intellectually and academically. They can do well for Nepal. For example, in the US, there’s a Nepal Study Centre within the University of New Mexico. Many of us are involved in that-- Professor Alok Bohara is the director, while myself, Professor Mukti Upadhyay, Prof. Gaury Adhikary and many others are involved in it. The Center is doing serious research on Nepal. Every year, many scholars participate in the South Asia seminar in Wisconsin and spend one whole day deliberating on Nepali issues and present very high quality papers. Some 40 people from all across the US and also from Nepal and outside gathered this year. That is also now being connected to what is happening in Nepal. Many of the policy issues are already being deliberated. The Center also publishes Liberal Democracy Nepal Bulletin and Himalayan Journal of Development and Democracy that focus on Nepal’s politics and development. There are many other journals and publications in the US, Australia and Europe.

What we need I think is a very strong connection between Nepal and such centers. This will help in creating breakthroughs in many fields.  For example, Nepal is experiencing limited resources the fields of medicine, engineering and technology and basic sciences. We can build strong connection and nexus between skills outside and the needs in Nepal. It is not only the government that can facilitate it. A lot of civil society and academic leaders can also help bridge the gap.

Q. Don’t you think the government should establish a proper channel to tap the intellectual and capital investment potential of the NRNs? Or is there already such a channel?

Dr Adhikari: Presently, we have a point of contact at the FNCCI (Federation of Nepalese Chambers of Commerce and Industries). We have a liaison with the Foreign Ministry also. We have been asking for stronger contacts with many people in this regard. I myself have met many people in the last couple of days, many MPs and former prime ministers and others in this regard.  If, like in India, we, too, can have an NRN Ministry because NRN now is such a big force, there will be so much more resource for Nepal. And it’s not going to be very expensive for Nepal to work on that. If there is an NRN Ministry, that would provide one window opportunity to deal with all NRN issues more holistically. It could be a very small ministry together with another ministry or even just a NRN department for the time being. That would be a solid liaison to carry out all mutual businesses and help prioritize the issues and agendas of the NRNs vis-à-vis the development of Nepal. This is a way in which I think we can function in a mutually advantageous way.

Q. Earlier you mentioned the issue of dual nationality. But there are people in our bureaucracy and political leadership who try to associate some controversies with the issue of dual nationality. What do you have to say?

Dr Adhikari: There should be absolutely no controversy at all about granting dual nationality to overseas Nepalis. Out of the 200 countries in the world, some 90 countries already offer dual nationality. Because citizenship of a country, basically, is for life. Anyone who is a citizen of the US, Canada, Australia, or Nepal or India should always be able to remain a citizen of that country. That is the principle of dual nationality. When people go to rich countries and due to the work requirements, for instance, to work in federal government in USA, they take US citizenship.

Sometimes even for traveling as they work for some international organization or big multinational companies, it is much easier with a US, Australian or Canadian passport. Also to lobby on behalf of Nepal, such as, to talk to the US congressmen, Senators or Canadian Senators and Parliamentarians, such as during the democracy movement in 2007, if you are a citizen you have a much better term to contact them. Otherwise they don't really care for you.

Because of that many people have taken different citizenships and we should not penalize people for that.  The Nepalese citizenship, like most other citizenships, should remain in life. That's how US, Canada and all other countries treat their citizens. There should be no controversy in this topic at all.

In Nepali Citizenship Act there is a provision, that if a Nepali takes a foreign citizenship, then his/her Nepali citizenship is automatically terminated.  We can change that provision and say that it doesn't apply to a list of  countries. I realize that there are a lot of concerns and controversies about dual nationality related to India. We appreciate that because this is very sensitive topic with practical implications.

I think we should apply dual nationality for outside SAARC.  India also has exactly done the same thing because of the sensitivity, and national security. We can say that the following 20 countries or 25 countries, for example, USA, Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand, Germany, will be exempt from the current provision that a Nepali’s citizenship will be lost by taking the foreign citizenship. It is not giving a Nepali citizenship to a new person, but it is maintaining and allowing a Nepali to retain his/her Nepali citizenship for life. We are asking, let the Nepali people who feel Nepali by birth or by naturalization retain their Nepali citizenship for life because many will be returning.  They will feel at home in Nepal and it is something that many nations have practiced.

Q. In which of the areas is the immediate NRN investment likely to be in a few years?

Dr Adhikari: I'd say think of at least two or three different areas. Of course, tourism.  That's the beginning. By virtue of being outside, you can bring other visitors also. NRNs can make significant investment in tourism sector both financially intellectually.  The Nepalese economy can also be drastically uplifted if we dramatically expand tourism. I'd say about 5 to 10 million tourists every year in the next 10 or 15 years, compared top 400,000/yr that we now have. That should be the plan, which would be the engine to drive the Nepalese economy upward. Nepal will climb at least one step in economic development by virtue of expanded tourism. So we need to build infrastructure, we need to have airlines, hotels, language trainings, roads etc. So that's one area I think.

I know that the government is planning to build an international airport in Tarai. Many NRNs can buy the airport development bonds and support the construction.  Of course, they have been involved in hydro-power also, but the NRNs can do much more than that.  But probably after tourism, the most important sector the NRNs can contribute is education, both higher education and also school education. In higher education, we can even create more demand for medical, engineering and technology and also in management studies. There is a dearth of management graduates in Nepal. Those are the areas we can build, not only for Nepalese but also for the region. For example there could a management school in Kathmandu affiliated to Harvard or another big school. Just like India has. There's nothing better than that for the management sector.  That's something that we can work on.

Q. So far you have focused on other developments. Don't you think the rural area could be included in the process?

Dr Adhikari: The few things that NRNs have done like bridhrashram (old age homes), hydro-power or few other things are already in the rural areas. When I talked about tourism, aviation and education, we must locate them outside Kathmandu. The tourism sector will take care of the rural areas, and I'd also mentioned to you last time that a university is one of the most important elements. The rural areas and tourism and all the other sectors tend t benefit from the immense diversity of Nepal.

Q. What would you like to do to change the face of the capital city?

Dr Adhikari: Akhileshji, Kathmandu should be changed, it is becoming unlivable because of pollution, lack of access for emergency vehicles, and the inability to find and identify locations and houses. Much of Kathmandu is an accident waiting to happen. For example, there is the danger of earthquakes, epidemics, and fires. The way it has developed is the text book example of a badly planned city - and we must change it. (laughs) Change is not going to be very easy because of the demography and influence peddling. I think within the next 5-10 years we must demolish buildings that are illegally and improperly built. All houses must have access to emergency vehicles, with plentiful open places and parks for the residents. In order to make Kathmandu better, we must also have regional planning in the rural areas.

We should have some good urban centers outside Kathmandu so that's the way we have to tackle it. There are lots of qualified professionals but we don't have much time to make these changes. I worked in the urban planning area, worked for one of the largest US cities and have been working on  environmental planning also. Urban planning is something many NRN’s would be happy to plan and implement.

Q. The Nepali Diaspora played a very important role during the Janaandolan last year. How do you see the last one and a half years of political development in Nepal? How optimistic or pessimistic are the Nepalese outside the country?

Dr Adhikari: The Nepali Diaspora also played quite a symbolic role in 1990 to support democracy in Nepal. Again in 2005-06 they played a critical role to prop up the Nepali democratic movement. Because the Diaspora now is big, and the communication was also easy. Things turned out very well, quickly.  Autocracy was dismantled; the new interim constitution was adopted, human right was re-established. So after 2006 April, most of the Diaspora for six to eight months, were very happy. We wrote about How Nepal set a good example, the good leadership of the Nepali people in dismantling autocracy and also bringing insurgents and revolutionaries into the fold.  But lately there is some frustration and pessimism not only in the resident Nepalese people here but also in the Diaspora. Things are not moving very well in the country.

We are extremely disappointed that the constituent assembly polls have been postponed for the second or third time. We wanted to see the elections right away. We are also disappointed by many of the practices that the Maoists have used to stall the peace process.  We do appreciate many of the things the Maoists have done in bringing democracy in Nepal and also in dismantling the autocracy. On the other hand, they should now come and try to win the hearts and minds of the people. I'm personally very optimistic but everyone is not feeling that optimism right now. I think things will settle well in Nepal, I think there are numerous people in the political sector who have done good exercise and eventually I'm sure that the Maoists will also come on board and say that it's in the interest of everyone to have the CA process and CA on time.

Posted on: 2007-10-28 07:21:00